Yin and Yang of Disavow

Posted by wilreynolds Image Credit: Vermin When Disavow first launched, many people felt like they were doing “Google’s job.” At first, I completely disagreed with that sentiment.  I loved it.  I needed disavow, and yes, Bing did get to it first! However, since Matt Cutts’ announcement of Disavow at Pubcon to present day, I have started to change my tune a bit based on experiencing what I can only call disavow hell. I truly do understand Google’s position on the tool, but I am thinking a lot of small business owners need more transparency, as they cannot battle what they are up against. SEER recently took on a client for whom we have disavowed what feels like about 85% of their links. Their owner is an amazingly awesome woman whose business is getting hurt due to the efforts of her previous SEO firm. The firm left her business in a bad place. She was doing #RCS already, and had built a real business that helped people find solutions to the issues of her niche. She was doing content marketing and building assets that added value well before she employed an SEO firm. Instead of showing some discretion on their aggressive tactics, they slammed the gas and went full bore on the spam. Her business grew and she hired people, not knowing that her SEO firm was setting her up for failure. At first, I was a big fan of disavow. Now that I am personally spending tons of time helping out on two clients affected negatively by the tool, I can’t help but think…seriously, is the the best use of my time to help these clients succeed online? Instead of spending the same time strategizing on how to build assets that add value, I’m hunting down spammy link networks. Google, is this what you want me and the SEER Interactive team to be doing? After disavowing 5,800 domains and being declined again, I am starting to see this as a serious needle in a haystack. If it is a needle in a haystack for companies like SEER, can you imagine what it’s like for the average small business owner? Having submitted a few disavows and ending with them denied time and time again, I realized, man, this is a waste of time. However, we will keep at it because we’ll never quit trying to help our clients succeed. Instead of the SEER team working on RCS and brainstorming on how to create valuable content that will add value (i.e. doing all the things Google says we should do), we are spending time trying to find link networks and things we don’t know a ton about because we didn’t build those crappy links to begin with. We pitched a concept (to be shown at Mozcon , hopefully; buy your tickets now!) that got a client on several news stations (it was quite a rush seeing a SEER Idea on the 6:00 and 11:00 news, along with our CEO being interviewed), newspapers, and countless other sites, but we’ve minimized our work on it because our disavow requests for that client keep getting denied….you serious?? This is the best thing we’ve ever built, yet we are spending a portion of our time on disavow and trying to understand why one or two links somewhere is the tipping point over what we already disavowed. So we went nuclear, disavowing every link before SEER started with a DA under a certain level, that is not on blogspot.com style subdomains. Are we throwing out some of the good with the bad? Yup. But we want to get back to adding value and building things we can be proud of. Google is giving spammers more business with disavow, not less There are good people out there who are worried about their businesses, not just their rankings. These people will try to do what’s right to get back in Google’s good graces, so they’ll pay people to help them save their businesses. I know I would. Once they’ve decided to reach out for help, who are they going to go to? Probably the same types of people who built their crap link networks in the first place. Who knows how to remove spam links best, a spammer or a marketing agency? Once again, the spammers get rewarded. Those who spammed the Internet spent their hours not creating value, but trying to create patterns in low-quality sites that Google wouldn’t pick up on. It worked for years, and then suddenly, it didn’t work anymore. Now the same people who created all the spam are the same ones these companies are relying on to find the patterns on how Google does it, since the companies who didn’t do this stuff never spent their time architecting crappy links. Disavow was needed. For the business owner in this example, she called and asked what’s up the minute she realized these guys had hurt her business more than they helped. She had to spend countless hours away from building quality content and trying to grow her business in order to learn about link networks, and when she said, “Hey, can you guys remove these links you got?” her old firm charged her $12,000. If she declined to pay the price tag, they were holding her site ransom. If she agreed to the payment, she would be out 12k for link removal. Ultimately, our business owner paid the fee. Two weeks later, disavow was announced, and – guess what – the old firm didn’t remove even close to all the links. So again, I get the need for Disavow, but man, it also gets my team completely off what I’d like them to do. More importantly, it distracts my team from what Google would like them to do.  Their time is taken away from building things that add value, and spent on figuring out how spam on the web used to work. This is definitely a skill I’d rather not be investing in, since we all know the shelf life of that skill is pretty limited. Maybe someday Google will use Webmaster Tools as an understanding when a client moves to a new agency, consultant, etc. I’m not convinced that is the right solution, but I guess we need to start somewhere to figure out how we get away from spending time on spam. If you are building spam links (which would make you a spammer) or if you are spending time understanding spam to make disavow work (which is everyone else), it’s a bad use of time for everyone. Here are three big takeaways from what I’ve seen with my limited Disavow work: 1. Cut the bleeding, hardcore This is the wrong time to get nitpicky about Disavowing links, especially if you have switched firms and 90% of what the old firm did was spam. Simply go into Webmaster Tools, pull the link report (with dates), and start Disavowing everything before the old firm started that has a low domain authority. It surprises me at how often people get picky. I’d say you are better off over-Disavowing the links, and then go back when you have time and are out of the penalty to pick back out the ones you think you may have been too aggressive on. It’s not a perfect solution, but this way, you get out of the penalty sooner rather than later. 2. Don’t cry wolf (too much) I have no proof of this, but I can only imagine that if you keep nibbling off one link at a time and submitting Disavows, Google may begin to get sick of it and might stop reviewing your requests as frequently. I also remember that, when Disavow launched, the Google team was a bit worried that people would disavow the good links along with the bad. I have a sneaking suspicion that if you Disavow quality links, Google has ways of saying “you probably made a mistake and didn’t mean that,” especially when they compare the good links to their expansive list of bad links, link networks, etc. 3. Go do some real marketing!!! You want rankings? You can’t just stop doing the bad; you have to start doing the good! Put priority on doing the things Google wanted you to do all along. Reference the high quality stuff you’ve done in your re-consideration requests, and let Google know you are making real investments and turning over a new leaf. So often when we talk about disavowing links, clients go…OMG well I’m going to lose some of my rankings… well, RIGHT BUDDY! When your rankings are propped up on fake marketing tactics and you haven’t done enough #RCS, then you are stuck with never having built real assets that attract real links. For the future of your business, you gotta start somewhere, and if your business isn’t worth marketing in some way other than SEO, then you are probably the exact kind of site that Google doesn’t want to rank well in most verticals. Sign up for The Moz Top 10 , a semimonthly mailer updating you on the top ten hottest pieces of SEO news, tips, and rad links uncovered by the Moz team. Think of it as your exclusive digest of stuff you don’t have time to hunt down but want to read!

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Yin and Yang of Disavow

Why We Can’t Just Be SEOs Anymore – Whiteboard Friday

Posted by randfish There’s a movement happening in our industry, and many folks are chaning their practices and titles from “SEO” to “online marketing, inbound marketing, and/or earned media marketing.” Where did this shift originate from, and where is it taking our industry as a whole? Is it enough to just be an SEO in today’s game, or are we missing the bigger picture? In today’s Whiteboard Friday, Rand shares his take on the shift from “SEO” to “inbound marketing” and what the future holds for our industry at large.  Have something to add? Leave your thoughts and experiences in the comments below! Why We Can’t Just Be SEOs Anymore – 20130422 – Rand   For your viewing pleasure, here’s a still image of the whiteboard used in this week’s video: Video Transcription “Howdy, Moz fans, and welcome to a special edition of Whiteboard Friday. This week I want to address an elephant in the room. It’s a topic that I’ve talked about quite a bit on my personal blog, a bit on the primary blog, and I know it’s a topic that gets discussed all over the marketing world, from Inbound.org to lots of blogs and news sites. It’s:  Why is it that there’s this movement from some folks in the field to change their titles, their names, their practices, from saying, “We do SEO,” to saying, “We do inbound marketing,” or, “We do online marketing, we do web marketing, we do earned media marketing”? I want to try to try and take on that elephant right now. There are some really good reasons that I think we’re seeing this shift happen, and I’m actually one of the proponents of this shift. I used to be very against it. I used to be very passionate about building only the brand of SEO. Now, I’ve revised my stance. I think that, as new data and as the world has changed and I’ve become less of an obstinate son of a gun, I’m seeing this bigger picture, and I want to try to share that picture that I’m seeing with you. The first one is I can’t argue that SEO is bigger than the way people define or have defined SEO for the last decade. That’s not really true of the 2010 to 2013 period, but it is very true of the decade before that, from the late ’90s into the late 2000, the “aughts.” What I mean is there are these old-school tactics. “Oh, you’re going to do SEO? Well, that means you do links, you make my content relevant, you put the good keywords in there, you do work on your markup, your snippets, and your site architecture, your structure. You are done. You have done SEO. That is SEO. Don’t try to tell me that it’s more than that.” This becomes very, very challenging when, as an SEO or as a marketer who’s trying to achieve good results with SEO, you say, “But wait a minute. This only works when the ranking factors were things like link graph data, keyword data, domain data, and topic analysis.” Now, we have a lot more ranking factors, right? Engines are looking at user and usage data. They’re definitely looking at brand signals. They’re looking at offline data potential. Potentially there are patent applications, thinking about offline data. They’re looking at social graph signals. What’s an SEO to do? If I want to influence these, I’ve got to be able to work on everything that’s marketing. That’s everything from social media to community building, positioning, branding, emails, CRO, product, the unique value of the content. What am I going to do if I’m tasked with SEO, but I’m only given responsibility over these things? It’s just not going to work. In order to influence just the very part of SEO that we touch on, which is moving up rankings in major search engines like Google and Bing, just to do that, we have to be able to control and influence a lot more than we ever had to in the past. It’s an untenable kind of situation. Thus, what we’d really like to do and what we’ve been working hard at as an industry is to try to change and broaden the definition of SEO. I can tell you one of the things that I feel very passionately about is changing that branding and working really hard to not have the word “SEO” be associated with scumminess and bad companies and irresponsible behavior. But that perception of SEO is so hard to change. It’s been established for such a long time now, and the small efforts of quite a few of us in the field to try and change that perception have not been successful, at least not outside of the online marketing world. Inside that world and with a small portion of the developers and designers who get SEO and get marketing, it’s true. I love those of you who are watching Whiteboard Friday and who are in that world, who understand that SEO is this bigger thing. But I know that you’ve felt the same pain that I’m talking about. People say, “Oh, SEO. So you’re a spammer. You manipulate things. You’re unethical. You’re breaking the search engine’s rules. What does Google think of you?” These are questions we have to answer every single time, and it’s pretty clear to me why this happens. I think the reason is actually very obvious. The primary and first association that most people have with SEO is what? It’s comment spam on their blogs. It’s a spammy, scummy email that’s trying to get them to sign up for something. It’s someone wanting to trade a PageRank 6 link with them. It’s a forum, or a bulletin board, or an online community saying, “Oh, are you wondering why this malware happened? That’s the SEOs doing that.” That’s why all these bad things happen on the Internet. They blame SEOs. To be fair, early on in the days of SEO, there were plenty of us, myself included, who would do some of these spammy and manipulative things. I’m not innocent, by any means. But that perception, that fight is one that I don’t think we’re winning. That’s another reason why I think it’s really hard to do SEO well and just call yourself an SEO. I think when you change the title, you change the perception. You change the frame of reference, and you say, “I do web marketing. I help people grow their companies. I help attract visitors, and that leads to more conversions on their site.” They’re like, “Oh, okay. I get it. Web marketing. Understood.” SEO is one of the channels, one of the main channels, but one of the channels they focus on. The third one, we are selling ourselves short. When you say, “I’m an SEO,” your boss, your client, your management says, “Why are you meddling with our design, UX, social, and ad campaigns? Why are you trying to get into this?” You are supposed to focus on SEO. Yet, the answer is well, we can’t do great even at just SEO without influencing all these other fields that we talked about above. By the way, we’re selling ourselves short even more than just this, because when we do work on all these channels, when we improve all of these channels, that obviously helps our search rankings too, we are also driving a lot of traffic from them. Social is sending us good traffic. The blogosphere and PR efforts are sending us good links that are driving visits, good customer service practices, community building practices, culture practices. All of these things that influence SEO that we’re trying to move the needle on to get better results, they also drive traffic of their own. That traffic converts, and that traffic is valuable. That traffic is measurable, and we are often the ones who are measuring it and quantifying it and trying to gauge the impact it has on search. Yet, we’re not getting rewarded for it or treated as though we were responsible for it. Again, we’re selling ourselves short. But I want to end on a positive note. This stuff is okay. It is okay. This is something that we are used to. We are used to change. If there’s anything that SEOs can be assured of, it’s that things will change tomorrow, that things will change next week. No one is better prepared to handle change than we are. This kind of change is actually positive. Every field matures. My checkmark practices don’t mature. I’m clearly getting worse at them. But every field matures. You can see the early seeds of programming, of video, of accounting, any type of field, right? Journalism, for sure. Any time there’s massive shift or a new industry, we have these years of immaturity, and then we get to a better stage. I think the stage for us is deciding:  Do we want to keep committing to a brand that frankly has been put through the wringer? One that I still use and will always use. As long as I am doing SEO work, I will use that brand. But do we want to also take hold of and recognize that, as marketers, we want to do good branding and good marketing? That means potentially calling ourselves something different, taking on these other titles, expressing ourselves in other ways in order to get more influence, and by the way, bigger paychecks too. An SEO consultant, there are people who charge between $50 and a few hundred dollars an hour. Then you look at business strategy consultants from Accenture, or something like that, and you’re talking about a thousand plus dollars an hour. The more influence you have, the greater your billing is and, by the way, the more you can effect change and have a positive influence. I hope this Whiteboard Friday is valuable to you. I’m sure there will be good comments and good discussion about this naming convention. I look forward to reading them and participating too. Take care, everyone. We’ll see you again next week for another edition of Whiteboard Friday.” Video transcription by Speechpad.com Sign up for The Moz Top 10 , a semimonthly mailer updating you on the top ten hottest pieces of SEO news, tips, and rad links uncovered by the Moz team. Think of it as your exclusive digest of stuff you don’t have time to hunt down but want to read!

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Why We Can’t Just Be SEOs Anymore – Whiteboard Friday

Black Hat or White Hat SEO? It’s Time to Ask Better Questions

Posted by Dr. Pete Since the Wild West days of the late 1990s, SEOs have been grouped into two camps – the “black hats” and the “white hats”. Over time, these distinctions have become little more than caricatures, cartoon villains and heroes that only exist in our individual imaginations, usually embellished to suit our marketing agendas. Even when grounded in specific tactics, “black” vs. “white” is a lot like “conservative” vs. “liberal” – the definition changes with the year and every person you ask, and that definition almost always comes loaded with assumptions and judgments. Unfortunately, too many business owners still choose their SEOs based on the hat they wear, even when that hat only comes out on sales calls. So, I’d like to ask some better questions. There are real strategic and tactical differences behind what we often think of as “white” and “black” hat SEO, and those differences are what you need to understand to make the right choices for your own business. This Isn’t About Ethics While we generally think of ourselves as “white hat” here at SEOmoz, I’m going to put ethics aside temporarily for this post. I will assume that, when we say “black hat”, we’re not talking about outright illegal behavior (like hacking into someone’s site). We’re talking about willfully violating Google’s rules to improve your ranking. While I do believe there are ethical implications to cheating the system and harming search quality, this post is intended to be an honest look at the real choices you face when choosing an SEO path. (1) High-Value or Low-Value? The first question is – are you going to pursue “high-value” or “low-value” tactics? I don’t want to replace one hopelessly vague duality with another one, so let me define my terms. By “value”, I mean the value that these tactics provide to site and search visitors. We sometimes call low-value tactics “spam”. It’s not usually illegal and it’s not always even unethical (depending on your point of view), but it’s always done specifically for SEO purposes. Here’s an example – linking all of your client’s sites back to your own site with keyword-loaded footer links. I wouldn’t call this unethical, but it doesn’t add value and, frankly, it’s just too easy. Google knows this, and they naturally devalue those links now (in extreme cases, they might even penalize the target site). Ironically, “low-value” tactics are often considered to be a value to people who are trying to gain ground as cheaply as possible. Practically, people often underestimate the time these tactics take and overestimate the return on investment. Low-value tactics tend to fade quickly. As Google gets more aggressive, low-value tactics are also getting riskier (see Question #2). There’s a more fundamental problem, though, in my opinion – low-value tactics don’t build anything toward the future. Once they fail, and they usually do, you have to start over and chase some new low-value tactic. Here’s an example – let’s say you get links back from all of your clients in low-value footer text, and your one-way link network looks something like this: Link “juice” is flowing, and all signs are green. Then, one day, Google pulls the plug on this particular low-value tactic. What are you left with? You’re not left with much, because these links never had real value beyond SEO. Imagine, though, that those links carried not only authority (in green), but traffic (in blue): Now, let’s say Google changes the rules, and you lose the ranking power of those links. The links still have value, because they’re still carrying visitors to your site: The picture may not look exactly the same, and the traffic quantity and quality have changed, but you’re not dead in the water. I know I’m oversimplifying this, but I just want to make the point perfectly clear.  If you play the game purely for SEO, and you lose, you lose everything. If you build something of value that actually attracts visitors and then the rules change, you’ve still built something. (2) High-Risk or Low-Risk? The second question you need to ask yourself is: How much risk are you willing to accept? Don’t just smile and nod and tell me about how you’re a “risk-taker” – I’ve heard plenty of people tell their SEO companies to “Go for it!” only to be reduced to sobbing in the corner when their strategy crashed and burned months later. This is a time for brutal honesty. Can you live with the risk of a severe penalty, including being totally removed from the Google index? High-risk SEO is like high-risk investing – yes, there can be high reward, if you know what you’re doing, but for every 1 winner at this game there are 99 companies that close their eyes, cover their ears, and whistle their way into disaster. If what you’re hearing from your SEO company sounds too good to be true, ask more questions.  As Paddy Moogan’s recent post pointed out, your risk is not someone else’s to take. To make matters worse, I think that many so-called “black-hat” tactics, and even some gray-hat tactics, are much riskier than they used to be. There was a time when, if you played the game too hard, you got a slap on the wrist and had to start over. You’d be set back a few weeks, but you’d also have made a lot of money in the months leading up to that. I’m not saying it’s right, but let’s at least be honest about the past. Fast-forward to 2013, and look at an update like Penguin – almost a year after the original Penguin, we’ve still heard very few public recovery stories. The ones I’ve heard in private have almost always involved a massive culling of links (the good with the bad, in many cases) and took months. That’s months with major revenue loss, and this is from big agencies who have resources and connections that many business don’t have access to. Even semi-innocent tactics have been hit hard. Fairly recently, you could spin out a bunch of city/state pages with a few long-tail keywords and do pretty well. Was it a high-quality tactic? No, but it’s hardly the essence of evil. Worst case, Google would start ignoring those pages, and you’d be out a few days of work. Then, along came Panda, and now your entire site can suffer for quality issues. The price of mistakes is getting higher, and Google is getting more punitive. I’m not here to tell you what to do, but this is not just a “white-hat” sermon. I’ve studied Google’s movements a lot in the past year, and I sincerely believe that the risk of manipulative tactics has increased dramatically. I also believe that it’s only the beginning. So, if you’re going to play the game, make sure you can afford to lose. It’s almost important to understand that every tactic carries risk, especially if you fail to diversify. When I hear a company say “Our clients are never affected by updates, because we only use Google-approved methods!”, then I know that company has only been in business for six months. Sooner or later, white-hat or black-hat, the rules will change. You could be sparkling white and still get hit by things like paid inclusion, SERP layout changes, SERP feature changes, etc. The time for SEO hubris is over. (3) Short-Term or Long-Term? Finally, I think you have to consider whether you’re in this for the long haul or just trying to make a short-term play. For example, let’s say you’re building an affiliate site to sell accessories for the Samsung Galaxy S4 (which was just announced while I was writing this post). The smartphone market moves fast, and as an affiliate in this space, you’re facing a few realities: You probably don’t have a lot of money to invest up-front You need to get your traffic rolling quickly Your peak opportunity may only last 6-12 months Again, I’m not making a moral judgment, but this is a very different kind of business situation, practically speaking. You may not have time to build epic content or spend six months building up a social following, and the consequences of getting burned a year from now may be fairly small. So, if you know your business is short-term, you can take risks that other people can’t. The problem, I think, is that too many long-term businesses think this way: “I can’t afford to spend money”, “I don’t have time to get moving”, “I need results now! ” So, you dive into low-value tactics to get moving quickly and cheaply. Even if you never get smacked down by Google, the reality is that these tactics tend to be short-lived – they fade or burn out, and you’ve got to start again. So, you’re constantly in a cycle of chasing the next low-value trend. This may be attractive at first, to get out the gate, but over time I think it’s a losing proposition. If you never build anything that lasts, you’re always stuck making repairs. If you invest early, those investments tend to pay out, and you can build on them. I’ve seen this so many times with content over the past few years – I invest in a piece that doesn’t quite live up to my immediate expectations (traffic-wise, social-wise, etc.), and I’m about to throw in the towel, when weeks or months later, it takes off and just keeps running. Once it’s running, you get to go along for the ride. Without that investment, you’re always pushing. So, What’s Right for You? I can’t tell you how to run your business. I just want you to ask yourself (and your vendors) the hard questions. Are “low-value” tactics actually saving you money? How much risk are you really willing to take? Is your #1 priority to get up and running quickly and cheaply, or are you trying to build a real, long-term business? If the best your provider can do is show you their hat, and they can’t help you answer these question, then move on – it doesn’t matter what color that hat is. Sign up for The Moz Top 10 , a semimonthly mailer updating you on the top ten hottest pieces of SEO news, tips, and rad links uncovered by the Moz team. Think of it as your exclusive digest of stuff you don’t have time to hunt down but want to read!

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Black Hat or White Hat SEO? It’s Time to Ask Better Questions